Jumping Ship!

Discussion in 'General Muse' started by IanR, Dec 8, 2016.

  1. IanR

    IanR New Member

    I'm seriously thinking of moving over from Muse to Wordpress and using something like the Divi theme as a lot of clients want the ability to update their own sites and also they say that they want to blog!

    I like Muse and it seems to be getting better all the time. From a non coders POV it is a great solution and obviously dovetails in nicely with Illustrator etc.

    Has anyone come up with a workable solution to clients wanting to blog (even if they don't in the end!) and update their own sites?
  2. razah

    razah Active Member

    Hey Ian, i am definitly feeling with you... I had so many bugs and frustration because of Muse in the last month that I do not believe Muse and Muse-Themes or any widget creator can deliver the sustainability for responsive websites. Paying on the one hand for the cloud AND for muse-themes without getting bugs fixed is not professional.
    Currently i am looking at this setup here https://theme.co/x/ where you can create a lot of different and reliable website compositions. But I think it wont take much to get frustrated by their web editor so i am reeealy considering to learn some coding and be my on master with dreamviewer.
    Nothing else can offer stable layouts that are 100 % customizable right now.

    Sorry, Adobe, Sorry Muse-Themes.
  3. IanR

    IanR New Member

    I'm with you on X Theme. I've used it a few times. It can be intollerably slow and you either have to accept the limitations in terms of layout it places on you or, start to learn to tweak and code a lot. I might have to dust off Dreamweaver too :)
  4. Jeremei

    Jeremei Well-Known Member

    I understand your worries but I would recommend to wait at least till the end of December because MuseThemes is going to publish new exciting widgets. And according to preliminary information Adobe Muse CC Prelease is also going to publish some new features and maybe updates about Christmas time. ;)
    IanR likes this.
  5. razah

    razah Active Member

    Maybe the new widgets would fix the bugs, but it wont solve the problem of Adobe Muse in general. its not only a part of Muse-Themes. If you compare Muse to other adobe software i am still wondering why I am paying money for this.
    IanR likes this.
  6. creativ3ace

    creativ3ace Member

    Razah, i completely agree with you. But, you have to keep in mind, this Muse has only been around for such a short time. PS and AI for example have been around since the 80's. They've had a lot of time to grow. Muse needs the same, and with such great people at Muse Themes creating widgets to light-speed that time, its going to be amazing. Just give it time and it will prevail. At the moment though, For clients side's of things, there NEEDS to be some form of easy-editing and modifications to specific sections to add content like creating a blog if needed.
    IanR likes this.
  7. razah

    razah Active Member

    Dont you think that Adobe should have enough experience in Software Engineering that especially the handling and performance could be ok good with a new program? Sure, Photoshop took a long way until the version we know but I don't talk primarily about features and the quality of code. It is all about the strange behavior and workflow of Adobe Muse. The slow interface, menus and buttons.
  8. creativ3ace

    creativ3ace Member

    Adobe should listen to its user base a bit more and implement more of the things its users are using it for and should have already had like "duhh this feature needs to be available" but each app is diffrent in the way it handles stuff. When your writing code for a specific application the way its written has a lot to do with the way you want your user to interact with the app. PS has different code than AI. Its one reason why the pen tool feels way diff going from either app. Muse is still trying to find its way of the in between from PS and ID and the Non-Code Dreamweaver version. Wizy Wig as its called. To me, Muse, however its marketed to the people from Adobe, is still in beta. You wont hear that from Adobe but thats the sad fact. Until these kinks are worked out, like responsive widths working perfectly with scroll effects for example, it wont be out of beta. My advice, just try your best to get through it, or jump to another back-end program, or something like WIX.com would somewhat suffice.

    Im not a programmer by any means. I do, however; have a lot of friends that are in deep with that field and from what i'v spoken with them thats the impression i have gotten with designing and launching new apps. Muse in this case is the focus.
  9. DjHerold

    DjHerold Moderator Staff Member Advisory Group

    All, I just wanted to jump in here with a quick comment.
    In no way am I trying to stifle this conversation, all dialog is appreciated.
    I do suggest getting involved with the Adobe Muse Beta Forum.
    It will allow you to discuss and try the new Beta versions as they fix bugs, go over user requests,and all things Muse.If you want Adobe to read and (hopefully) respond to your requests/ideas, that is the place to start.
  10. Steve Harris

    Steve Harris Museologist Staff Member Moderator

    Hey Guys,

    This is an interesting thread! I agree with you on many points here. Most of us here at MuseThemes are all former (or current) freelance web designers, so we can totally understand your frustration with the product – we are on your side! We wish for many of the same things you do when it comes to Muse development.

    Couple thoughts... I'll try not to ramble on!

    This is always a tough one, because our code contained within widgets is actually really solid. Our widgets are professionally developed by guys who know what they are doing (and even come from strong Wordpress / Joomla plugin development backgrounds). The biggest challenge with Muse widgets is the unlimited and endless options a Muse site can present. We can build a widget that works in many common Muse setup scenarios, but if you tried to "nest" that widget in a composition, combine our widgets with other vendors products, etc it's unlikely to work.

    So would you call that a "bug", or rather just a use case that wasn't anticipated? This is why we release updates frequently, to try and address these use scenarios that pop up. With that said we do get the occasional bug, but we try extremely hard to get them squashed asap.

    I think the best thing you guys can do is tell Adobe how important us vendors are to your success with Muse. I think the widget development system in Muse wasn't expected to catch on like this, and Adobe didn't anticipate such a strong response from the market. We can introduce much bigger / better widgets if Adobe made some improvements and upgrades to the development system we use (MUCOW).

    Re: responsive – agreed, responsive introduced complexity far beyond anything we anticipated. Adobe has never given us developers any documentation on how to work with their responsive implementation, and their code if mostly obfuscated (so we can't see it). We've asked for the source code so we can offer better compatibility, but so far nothing. It's frustrating for us. We do the best we can to make our products play nice with responsive with the limited information we have.

    I think it's possible you might just have outgrown what Muse was designed for. We certainly hear the "CMS" yell loud and clear, but trying to shoehorn a complex backend system into a product that was built / designed for static sites is challenging (and risky). Muse was built as a product for print designers to build simple sites visually. When you start getting into dynamic content, content management, server setup, security, etc there are honestly better options out there.

    This is partly why we're looking at single CMS widgets vs. a complete system. Installing Wordpress and hacking it into Muse just so your clients can update an image or two is like hammering a nail in with a sledgehammer. With single widgets you can pick and choose the features you need most.

    Personally I don't experience a ton of slowdown with Muse day to day, but it's possible you're building a little bigger sites than I'm working with in the app.

    I do know from working with Adobe that they have a limited team available to make changes to the application. So the question is... do they focus on new features that users are screaming for? Or should they prioritize performance improvements but disappoint the segment of the market expecting "wow" new features? Hard decision, either way somebody is disappointed.

    We at MT experience the same challenge. Our members expect (and deserve) new products often, but also updates to existing widgets. It's a delicate balance, and we're still experimenting with the right split.

    This is definitely a great point. I've heard that products like Photoshop and Illustrator have 100's of engineers working on them, and with decades of development already done they are stable and refined. Adobe calls these their flagship products.

    I did a presentation once to the entire Adobe Muse team, and it was in a very small room. There were maybe 30 people there – it's just not possible to compare Muse to the products above at this point. As time goes on and Adobe sees a return on Muse, I'm sure they will invest more (we all hope). There are some comments on pre-release right now that indicate the product team is undergoing a shift, which I believe to be positive and optimistic for it's future. Can't say anymore since pre-release is under NDA.


    OK I'll stop, but seriously good discussion. Thanks for choosing our forum to talk about it.
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2016

Share This Page